What if Your Job Isn’t Done Until the Customer’s Job Is Done? An Interview With Sunbelt's Ron Gaines.

Ron (00:05):

We need to streamline the tools and devices that they are actually capturing customer information and needs and that is being activated across our business in near real time as much as real time as possible, so that we can then stop issues between sales information and data and the data that we're using and that we're banking on in digital practices and functions in the business.

Jim (00:27):

Welcome to What If? So What? The podcast where we explore what's possible with digital and discover how to make it real in your business. I'm your host, Jim Hertzfeld, and we get s**t done by asking digital leaders the right questions: what if, so what, and, most importantly, now, what? Hey, I'm really excited to have the next guest, Ron Gaines. He's the Senior Manager of Marketing, Technology and Analytics for Sunbelt Rentals. Ron, thanks for joining. Great to see you today.

Ron (00:53):

It is a pleasure, Jim.

Jim (00:55):

I'm super excited to be on today, chat with you a little bit. Because we've done a lot of work with you, so I know what you're going through, I know what you've been through, I know what you're dealing with but a lot of people don't maybe not be familiar with Sunbelt. Maybe a little bit of background about Sunbelt and kind of the like, "What makes you guys a little special?”

Ron (01:13):

Yeah, we are a global company, a global enterprise that specializes in specialty equipment and equipment rentals. We have over 550,000 pieces of fleet in the continental US with over 1,400 plus locations in the US to provide that value to our customers. So, you will know us by the green equipment on construction sites. You will usually see them. Once you see them, you can't stop seeing them, right and all the time. And you know what, man. Now, for me it brings a lot of pride when I see that equipment on construction sites because it shows that you know we have a presence and that we provide real value to customers doing hard work.

Jim (01:55):

Right, right, it is hard work. Yeah, I know right where my local Sunbelt is, by the way; it's just maybe a couple of miles.

Ron (02:01):

Yes, that is what we are planning and have everybody know where their local Sunbelt is.

Jim (02:07):

That's great. It's great. Yes, sir, and I'm a DIY-er, so usually I got to rent equipment. So, listen, man, that's a persona.

Ron (02:14):

We focus on you, too.

Jim (02:16):

The pro-home guy. Yeah, yeah, that's what we call them. I can know enough to be dangerous and that's what we like.

Ron (02:23):

That's what we like. You're the perfect person for us.

Jim (02:26):

Awesome. I have no shortage of ideas and projects I want to accomplish, so talk to your wife.

You know what this is? Just like I would. Sometimes I will look at a piece of equipment I didn't know existed and I'll say, “Whoa, I didn't know you could do that. That could make my life easier.” That might actually prompt a project idea. So I need to get in and start browsing.

Ron (02:46):

And I think that's a really interesting thing that for consumers like yourself to understand that we have so many types of equipment. Let's say you're doing this podcast, and you want to do a movie or a documentary. We have film and TV rental equipment. Really, see film production from Sunbelt Rentals. Yes, maybe you want to throw a concert? We can supply everything you need to put that concert on. It can be from a power tool to doing a movie. We have the equipment for you.

Jim (03:14):

All right, see, now I'm going to make a movie. I didn't even know I had to. Yes, sir, all right, that's awesome inspiration, Ron. So, you know you guys are, you're on a mission, I think traditional. Like you mentioned, construction. You know that's gone on for a long time. It's one of those industries where the construction manager, the construction crew, he wins a bid, they got a crew together, they got to show up on-site and it doesn't change a lot. But what from your perspective? I mean, they didn't always have a senior manager of marketing, technology, and analytics. So, what sort of changed in the world? When you look at this space of equipment, what have you seen that has driven the business? Good question.

Ron (03:56):

So, while I like to say we support an industry that's as old as the advent of the wheel, right I - infrastructure and construction and building but our customers' expectations and modernization and digitalization has changed, right? We were talking prior to this that, you know, once COVID hit, it accelerated and matured digital light years, right? And now that became mainstay table stakes and a part of consumers' evolving expectations going forward. They expect to get value from a brand not only through analog in our legacy brick-and-mortar stores like we do have, but they want to be able to shop online. They want to see what other and additional value that they can get from our brand through digital mediums.

Jim (04:42):

Yeah, and they want it kind of on their terms, right? So, you guys have to, and I kind of see this a lot too, right? One of the things that we hear from a lot of customers is what's our customer thinking? What's on their mind? How do I get to know them? Like you said, they want instant access; they want to be informed. They certainly have expectations, and you guys are doing a lot to make that happen, right? You have a website. You put your catalog; you put the availability up there. But the way they think and shop changes all the time. So, how do you guys keep up with that?

Ron (05:15):

Staying connected, insisting on a relationship. You mentioned a couple of key things to me. The customers' and our end users' expectations are constantly evolving. We talked about that. Digital has become a mainstay, but with that, understanding the customer needs is the holy grail of a brand providing real value. And digital has some challenges with that because to understand true intent it's not an easy thing. But if you insist on getting to know your customer, it's like if we had a brick and mortar that came in and they you know, I don't care what I was selling, I got to know that person. I got to know their family, their kids, and I got to know who they are. I start to understand and learn more about them, and I learned how to provide better value to them based on what I do know. So to me it's really getting to know your customer. It is giving them the opportunity to show you what they need from the brand, and then the brand responding in kind. Right? Because without that value exchange, there isn't any business and there isn't any consumer.

Jim (06:18):

So, what are some of the ways you do that, Ron, like, do you go out to the store, do you go out to the job site? What are some of the ways that you guys try, and keep your finger on the pulse?

Ron (06:28):

Yeah, we do have our legacy sales force. We have people on the ground who are creating real relationships and lasting relationships with customers, and that doesn't change. But with that, we need to also make sure that the customer and the brand could understand the company, they can understand the customer, and they can have a singular view of that customer internally to know this is their preference. They prefer to shop at this particular location versus that location. Split the difference, it could be almost seven, eight miles in either direction, but they prefer that one, or hey, I actually prefer to talk to my salesperson or I want to just shop online and check out. So, to answer your question specifically, I think it's really getting in tune with the data. We are doing a lot to understand our customer and our customer needs by the information that they're giving us and making sure that there are opportunities for them to give us that information and us to make something out of that information, really provide value from it.

Jim (07:29):

So, you've got these relationship builders right, these sales team and these guys. I'm just drawing like a, I'm painting a picture of these guys. They know, they understand the job site. They know where these guys are. They've been to the shops. Maybe they play golf. They've probably been to a barbecue or two with these guys.

And there's a lot of just inherent information. It's pretty valuable, but you're also looking at the other end of the spectrum. You're collecting the data because they're doing more online, because they're moving more digitally, you have more data to look at. I'm guessing that's where the analytics part of your title comes in. Is that? 

Ron (08:04):

Yes, that's the whole second-day job. Yeah, the night job.

Jim (08:10):

What happens when you know sort of the field sales team and the data start to clash? Have you had that experience yet?

Ron (08:16):

Yeah, I mean, it happens, right, and good input is good output. We're only as good as the data that we collect. Right, and that is also an enablement piece of it. We can never split the fact that marketing, while its true purpose is to communicate the value proposition to the customer, for internally, it's also sales enablement, service enablement function, as well. Right, so that means okay, what methods are our field sales team collecting this information? Is it a method that our methodology leaves little error or has a lot of error in this process?

Initial expression, for instance, right, like a lot of us know about that, and our sales teams using a variety of tools to capture information, but we need to make it easy to use. Maybe we need to streamline the tools and devices that they are actually capturing customer information and needs, and that is being activated across our business in near real-time, as much as real-time as possible, so that we can then stop issues between sales information and data and the data that we're using and that we're banking on in digital practices and functions in the business.

Jim (09:23):

I remember years ago, I was working on a sales forecasting project, and this thing was super sophisticated for its time - millions of dollars.

College professors, you know, were consulted on this thing, I mean, it was very sophisticated at the time, went through all these data integration, went through all these complex computational cycles, and then the one requirement that the sales team absolutely had to have was the ability to override the sales forecast that we spent all these millions of dollars on with their own number, which happened like 100% of the time. Like, yeah, I don't think I'm going to make that number; I'm going to downgrade it. So, it's just funny to me how, again, data and reality have to meet. Are there areas where you think you know you've really gotten that right? And I guess I'll ask it this way: Did you ever give a sales team an insight, and they said you know what? I didn't know that was coming? I didn't see it that way, kind of putting you on the spot here, but can you think of an area where the sales organization really, really yeah, I think one of the areas that again, back to that enablement function because we got to understand their role and our role.

Ron (10:33):

I think one area that I've seen, even in my many lives as a professional, is content. Content is important. It's one of their primary tools to do their job of making good on the value proposition that marketing has already put out to market. Right? Now it's the sales team and the content to continue to bring them along and mature that conversation to their customer who's ready to do business with this brand?

So, we've seen where salespeople create their own content, and sales enable their content, right? And then it's like, well, we're not saying the same things across all content and channels. That may be confusing our customer. In the end, what is the real information to stand up? This is the thing that I really insist on around marketing and sales organizations. It's the expectation that we're giving the customer. Are we being consistent across the customer lifecycle and the journey? Right?

If sales are not making good on what marketing says, that's an issue. If we're communicating multiple things that conflict a little bit. Maybe this was our SLA for this, you know, maybe for our delivery time, but we've changed processes, and they have outdated content - happens all the time. Or maybe it's the channel that the end user is coming in on, and we have a certain way that we want to nurture them based on the channel that they come in on. Maybe sales has a different way that they want to communicate to this customer, and maybe we're thinking, hey, we've given them this kind of expectation across these channels. Maybe you continue with this part of the conversation before you go into this information, right? That is areas that I've seen specifically where data and marketing was able to enhance how a salesperson communicated to the end user to make sure that the experience was consistent from interest to close.

Jim (12:19):

Well, and this is the content, I mean, you kind of bring up like a really basic point. You know, I was thinking not so much insights, but if we're creating all this velocity, right.

Ron (12:28):

Yeah, yeah.

Jim (12:29):

Right, because they've got self-service access to the content. But what if it's in conflict if it's wrong? And I'm thinking about boy, what happens when there's a safety issue? Right now, we're getting dicey right. Well, we have a recall or an alert, or a safety bulletin, right?

Ron (12:43):

Yes, sir, stakes are a lot higher, so what I like about that, what you're saying, and that's where I see, naturally and logically, where the customer success organization comes along. Right, that's where customer success plays a key role in this. Sometimes, where we provide the value because maybe we do get past what we call conversion. But the customer, the value that they were looking for, doesn't mean that they're done being a customer and are done receiving value they were looking for, doesn't mean that they're done being a customer and are done receiving value. That means we still need to make sure that we do delivery to the point that the customer is ready to do business with us again. Right, and sometimes, we know sales cannot tell the whole story.

Or, I love my salespeople, my boots on the ground. I love them because they are the physical embodiment of our brand, so they're important. However, their customers' expectations changes. They get the product, they get the service, and they're like, well, I want it a little bit more. I'm expecting this grandiose thing here, and it's like, maybe we need more support here. So, what service team now provides that added value that the customer is looking for or can give them some context to what they may have missed in these earlier parts of the journey before they really bought into our service or product, right?

Jim (14:00):

So, I'm going to give you a tagline. You can steal it or, you know, forget about it.

Ron (14:04):

This is good.

Jim (14:04):

Let me see yeah, the job's not done until the job is done. How about that? Maybe that's. I don't know if there's-.

Ron (14:10):

That right there. That's a hot take. I don't know. I like it. I like it. The job's not done until the job is done.

Jim (14:16):

Our job's not done. Until your job's done, I don't know, we can work on something there. But yeah, I like what you're saying, and this is actually something we looked at earlier this year about post-purchase. You know where we get hyper-focused on finding the right customer, grabbing them, converting them, and you know there's a lot of work and effort that goes into getting a customer and it's real easy to lose them. So you know, sort of what I'm hearing is like, yeah, there's a lot of expectation setting in an omnichannel world that you got to manage right. So, all the service, all the self-service, all this velocity. But you know, it sounds like if you do a really good job with driving the content and the insights, then you got to really focus on that coordination and making everything whole.

Ron (15:03):

You want to know what my guiding light is for this, Jim. It's value, simple and plain. I was talking to somebody like you know. The transactional relationship is great. Of course, we want to get past that. I don't knock the transactional relationship, but that relationship is only in good standing as long as both parties feel that the value that they're getting equates.

Once you feel like you're not getting the most value from this relationship, the relationship is in jeopardy. So, we have to think about what value we're getting across all touchpoints across the full landscape of the customer lifecycle. So, being a customer and being an advocate, and all of those mature things that we want to progress our customers to. But at the base level, we're thinking about, is it really providing real value to the customer and to the brand? And we can't take the brand out of it because they're a part of the transaction, and it's okay to make good because the beginning of this relationship is based off the transaction. If I do not get a good product and service, there is no relationship. But that cannot be the only determining factor of our real relations.

Jim (16:08):

And as soon as that customer has an idea that they could go, maybe they got an alternative, right? Yes, sir, you know, like as soon as they get there, they start questioning, hmm, am I really getting the value out of these guys from start to finish, right? That doubt starts to creep in, and you're like, hmm, I guess I have more options. Maybe I should reevaluate. You know how I'm doing it. That would keep me up at night. That does keep me up at night. It does.

Ron (16:34):

And, for me, being a digital practitioner, I'm looking at giving some dope back as a target for this discussion.

Right, we are a legacy business, analog business, brick and mortar stores. However, I need to see all of the rich value and experience that a customer receives when they enter into one of those locations, inquire about a service or equipment for rent and then get that value, go on to use that equipment, get the value out of that, come back to our brand, making sure that transaction is closed, their needs are met, et cetera. How do I do that in a digital medium? How do I start to do that before I even get there from my marketing medium? I have to translate this, I have to figure this out, and so I am being very acute to all of the little nuances of data and behavior and anything that a customer can tell me through this digital medium and various channels, and tools and technologies that I can provide that value and understand like, hey, maybe they're just shopping us, that's fine. Get the information you need to make your decision and why you may want to come back there, that's important. That there that’s, important.

Jim (17:47):

I love your really holistic thinking around this.

Ron (18:08):

Yeah, it's so important because, as marketers, sometimes we lose our way, and we don't understand what our real purpose is. Our purpose is to communicate value. We have one of the most important roles in a brand communication of our value proposition. Why us versus them? That is what we do, and we should do that really well. Yes, we have demand gen and all of these other auxiliary functions and roles that are being added to marketing. Core of it - understand how to communicate our value.

Well, two, I would say

Jim (18:41):

We only need one, but do you want a bonus?

Ron (18:43):

No, I got to have a bonus. I got to have a bonus because it's not so black and white.

Giving the customer a voice is very important, and I think we have a unique position to do so because we talked about how intent is the holy grail. Well, how do we know intent? The customer knows their intent. They're the ones who can tell you they what need. Hey, guess what? Your checkout experience sucks? Ah, I understand what the friction and abandonment on my checkout is because it's just sucks! We have to give the customer an actual voice to let them know how they want to receive value from us. It's very, very important we do, though.

Jim (19:20):

That's awesome. I'm glad you came back with the bonus. What to do is, I'm actually going to take that myself, right? Be the voice. It's almost like a calling, right? Be that voice, be that advocate. So yeah, that's awesome, Ron. Ron, great stuff, man. I love working with you, love hearing your stories. Thanks for coming on the show again, and we'll talk to you later.

Ron (19:41):

Jim, thank you. This has been a pleasure. Can't wait to come again, have more dialogue with you, sir, awesome, awesome.

Joe (19:48):

You've been listening to What If? So What? A digital strategy podcast from Perficient with Jim Hertzfeld. We want to thank our Perficient colleagues JD Norman and Rick Bauer for our music. Subscribe to the podcast, and don't miss a single episode. You can find this season, along with show notes, at perficient.com. Thanks for listening.